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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:47:53 +0900
From: Jun Kuriyama <kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp>
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References: <199906172259.PAA11236@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> <19990618104930Z.horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
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Kazuo Horikawa wrote:
> 
>  $BKY@n$G$9!#(B
> 
>  $B%m%1!<%kL>$K4X$7$F$O(B FreeBSD-tech-jp $B$G5DO@$,$"$C$?$N$G!"$=$A$i$K(B Cc:
> $B$7$F$$$^$9!#(Bja_JP.EUC $B$H$$$&L>A0$,K\Ev$O$I$&$"$k$Y$-$+$K>\$7$$J}$N%U%)(B
> $B%m!<$r$*4j$$$7$^$9!#(B
> 
> $B$"$5$_$5$s!'(B
> > $B$3$N7o$G$9$,!"$[$s$H$K(B Nik$B$N$$$&DL$j$K(B ja -> ja_JP.EUC$B$K$7$F$$$$$s$G$9$+!)(B
>  $B8=>u!"F|K\8lE*$K$O%a%j%C%H$O$J$$$N$G!"K\Ev$O$7$?$/$J$$$G$9!#(B
> ($B$H$O$$$(!"(B
>  o $BJ#?t%m%1!<%k$N%G%#%l%/%H%j$r(B doc $B$N2<$K;}$A$?$$(B ($BCf9q8l$O(B 2 $B$DI,MW(B)
>    $B$N$G!"(Bencoding $BL>$b%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$K$D$1$?$$!#(B
>  o $BE}0l@-$H$$$&4QE@$+$i!"(Bja $B$K$b(B encoding $BL>$D$1$?$$!#(B
> $B$H$$$&(B nik $B$N0U?^$bJ,$+$i$J$$$G$O$J$$$G$9!#(B)
> 
>  $B$^$?!"(Bdoc/ja $B$r(B doc/ja_JP.hoge $B$K0\F0$9$k$H$7$F$b!"(B
>  o $B%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$O0\F0$7$J$$$+!"(B
>  o $B%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h(B /.../man/ja $B$H(B /.../man/ja_JP.hoge $B$N(B
>    $B%7%s%\%j%C%/%j%s%/$r$9$k(B
> $B$3$H$K$h$j!"(Bports $B$X$N1F6A$OL5$7$K$7$?$$$G$9!#(B
> 
>  $B$^$?!"L>A0$rJQ$($k$J$i$P!"$3$N<!$NJQ99$O@dBP$K$J$$$h$&$K$7$?$$$G$9!#(B
>  o [FreeBSD-tech-jp $B$N(B Subject: let's not use ja_JP.EUC $B$N5DO@(B]
>    ja_JP.EUC $B$,%m%1!<%kL>E*$K@5$7$/$J$/(B X11R6 (X/Open $B?d>)$J$N$G$7$g$&(B
>    $B$+!)(B) $B$G$D$+$C$F$$$k(B ja_JP.eucJP $B$r;H$*$&$H$$$&5-;v$,$"$C$?$H;W$&$N(B
>    $B$G$9$,!"(BX/Open $B$N;qNA$OC5$;$^$;$s$G$7$?!#(B
>  o [http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/character-sets]
>    $B$3$l$K$h$k$H(B ja_JP.EUC-JP $B$K$9$Y$-$H$$$&$3$H$G$7$g$&$+!)(B
> 
>         Name: Extended_UNIX_Code_Packed_Format_for_Japanese
>         MIBenum: 18
>         Source: Standardized by OSF, UNIX International, and UNIX Systems
>                 Laboratories Pacific.  Uses ISO 2022 rules to select
>                        code set 0: US-ASCII (a single 7-bit byte set)
>                        code set 1: JIS X0208-1990 (a double 8-bit byte set)
>                                    restricted to A0-FF in both bytes
>                        code set 2: Half Width Katakana (a single 7-bit byte set)
>                                    requiring SS2 as the character prefix
>                        code set 3: JIS X0212-1990 (a double 7-bit byte set)
>                                    restricted to A0-FF in both bytes
>                                    requiring SS3 as the character prefix
>         Alias: csEUCPkdFmtJapanese
>         Alias: EUC-JP  (preferred MIME name)
> 
>    KDE, Qt, Xtt $B$J$I$H$b%3%s%7%9%F%s%7$JL>A0$K$J$k$Y$-$H(B nik $B$O=q$$$F(B
>    $B$$$^$7$?$,!"(Bja_JP.EUC-JP $B$O(B KDE, Qt, Xtt $B$G;H$($k$N$G$7$g$&$+!)(B
> 
>  $B@5D>!"(Bja_JP.EUC $B$O$I$N$h$&$JL>A0$G$"$k$Y$-$+$o$+$C$F$J$$$G$9!#(B
>  $B%m%1!<%k$K>\$7$$J}$N%U%)%m!<$r$*4j$$$7$?$$$G$9!#(B
> 
> > $B$=$b$=$b$,(B ja_JP.EUC$B$@$C$?$N$r(B ja$B$K$7$?$N$K!"$I$&$7$F$^$?85$KLa$7$?$$(B
> > $B$N$+$h$/$o$+$j$^$;$s!#!J$H$$$&$+$=$b$=$b$I$&$7$F(B ja_JP.EUC$B$r(B ja$B$KJQ$((B
> > $B$?$N$+$,$h$/$o$+$C$F$$$J$$(B...$B!#(B^_^;$B!K(B
>  $BKY@n$NM}2r$G$O!"(B
>  o ja_JP.EUC $B$@$C$?$N$,(B ja $B$K$J$C$?7P0^(B:
>    ja_JP.EUC $B$NL>A0$@$H$R$H$D$N8@8l$KBP$7$F$$$/$D$b%G%#%l%/%H%j$,$G$-(B
>    $B$&$k$N$G!"%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$O8@8lL>$@$1$K$7$?$$$H$$$&(B John Fieber $B$N(B
>    $B0U8+!#$3$l$K(B Japanese documentation group $B$,;?F1$H$$$&7P0^!#(B
>    (jfieber $B$NE:IU%a!<%k;2>H(B)
>  o $B$d$O$j(B ja_JP.EUC $B$K$7$?$$$H8@$C$F$$$k7P0^(B:
>    1. $B%$%s%9%H!<%k@h%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$H%j%]%8%H%jL>$OF1$8$G$"$k$Y$-(B
>    2. $B%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$O%m%1!<%kL>$HF1$8$G$"$k$Y$-(B
>    3. $BCf9q8l$J$I$OJ#?t%(%s%3!<%I$,I,MW(B
>    (nik $B$NE:IU%a!<%k;2>H(B)
> 
>    ache $B$b>e5-$N(B 2. $B$r<gD%$7$F$$$^$7$?!#(B
> 
> > $B$=$l$K!"F|K\8l(BEUC$B$N@5$7$$%5%U%#%C%/%9$O(B .EUC $B$G$O$J$/$F(B .eucJP$B$@$H$+$$(B
> > $B$&OC$b$"$j$^$;$s$G$7$?$+!)(B
> >
> > $B;d$OA02s$N7P83$+$i@5D>$$$C$F$3$&$$$&JQ99$OI432$"$C$F0lMx$J$7$H$$$&0U8+(B
> > $B$r;}$C$F$$$^$9$N$7!"(BNik$B$N9%$_$@$1$G$P$s$P$sJQ$($i$l$k$H(B ports$BB&$H$7$F(B
> > $B$OHs>o$KLBOG$J$s$G$9$,!"B>$NJ}$O$I$&;W$C$F$$$i$C$7$c$k$s$G$7$g$&!)!J$[(B
> > $B$j$+$o$5$s$,0JA0%7%`%j%s%/0F$K;?@.$7$F$/$@$5$C$F$$$?$H;W$$$^$9$,!"$=$N(B
> > $B8e$4H/8@$,$J$$$N$G(B Nik$B$K$OL5;k$5$l$F$$$k$h$&$G$9!#!K(B
>  $B1F6A$K$D$$$F$O<!$N$h$&$J$b$N$@$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
>  o doc/ja/ $B$,(B doc/ja_JP.hoge $B$K$J$k$3$H$O!"$"$^$j1F6A$O$J$$!#(B
>  o /usr/local/man/ja $B$,(B /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC $B$K0\F0$5$l$k$3$H$O!"(B
>    ports $B$X$N1F6ABg!#(B
>    * $B$b$7(B* $B0\F0$9$k$J$i!"(B
>    ln -s /usr/local/man/ja -> /usr/local/man/ja_JP.hoge
>    ln -s /usr/X11R6/man/ja -> /usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.hoge
>    $B$^$?$O!"(B
>    ln -s /usr/local/man/ja_JP.hoge -> /usr/local/man/ja
>    ln -s /usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.hoge -> /usr/X11R6/man/ja
>    $B$H%j%s%/$r1JB3E*$K;D$7$F$[$7$$!#(B
>    (/usr/share/man/ja $B$NJ}$O(B /doc/ja/man/Makefile.inc $B$N=q$-49$($@$1$G(B
>    $BBP=h2DG=(B)
> 
>  nik $B$N(B doc $B:F9=@.<j=g(B ($B2<5-(B) $B$K$O%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$K$D$$$F$O(B
> $B5-=R$7$F$$$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
>  $B:#2s$N0\F0$K$D$$$F!"%^%K%e%"%k%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$O4^$^$l$J$$$3$H$r3NG'$7(B
> $B$F$*$1$P(B ports $B$X$N1F6A$O$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
> 
> 4.  Fixup the Japanese hierarchy.
> 
>     4.1  Move doc/ja/ to doc/ja_JP.EUC/.  Note that an old directory with this
>          name (but with the contents in the attic) already exists.  I'm not
>          sure if this poses a problem or not.
> 
>     4.2  Create a new doc/ja_JP.EUC/books/ directory.
> 
>     4.3  Move the doc/ja_JP.EUC/handbook/ directory under the new books/
>          directory, so you now have doc/ja_JP.EUC/books/handbook/.
> 
>          Rename "handbook.sgml" to "book.sgml".
> 
>     4.4  Leave the FAQ where it is, as it hasn't been converted to DocBook
>          yet.
> 
>     4.5  The Japanese directory hierarchy should look like
> 
>          doc
>           `-- ja_JP.EUC
>           :    |-- books
>           :    |    `-- handbook
>           :    |-- FAQ
>                `-- man
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:41 -0500 (EST)
> From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
> To: Kazuo HORIKAWA <horikawa@isrd.hitachi.co.jp>
> CC: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.FreeBSD.ORG
> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kazuo HORIKAWA wrote:
> 
> > Is the proposal to import Japanese online manuals into CVS repository
> > (doc/ja_JP.EUC/man) acceptable?  I would like to ask you this
> > question, because you are the Documentation Project Manager.
> 
> I would like to resolve the ja versus ja_JP.EUC question first,
> but otherwise that sounds fine.
> 
> The problem coming down the pipe with the full locale
> specification is cases where there may be numerous locales for
> any given language.  Right now there are 4 de locales, 4 en
> locales, 4 fr locales, 2 it locales, and 2 nl locales that differ
> only in the country specification.  While genuine
> language/dialect differences do exist in some cases, how likely
> is it that de_CH is going to produce a different set of
> translations that de_DE?
> 
> Encoding may still be an issue, but how big of an issue?  In the
> web/mail/news environment, documents can be self-identifying. Can
> a man program detect EUC versus SJIS input and convert on-the-fly
> to the active locale encoding if necessary?  (Am I correct in
> believing that EUC -> SJIS -> EUC is a "lossless" conversion?)
> 
> I have also been pondering the implications moving the english
> docs (and web pages) into an en subdirectory.  In the web
> context, URLs without a language qualifier could be redirected to
> the language of the mirror's choice.
> 
> -john
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: Replace man/ja with man/ja_JP.EUC (FDP Directory Reorganization)
> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:08:21 +0100
> From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
> Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on
> To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami <asami@FreeBSD.ORG>
> CC: horikawa@jp.freebsd.org, ache@nagual.pp.ru,
>      nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, ru-freebsd-doc@freebsd.ru,
>      doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk
> References: <19990516183643.A15766@nagual.pp.ru> <19990517160148W.horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>
> 
> On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 04:05:12AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote:
> >  * I understand that we need not have more than one subdirectory under
> >  * man/ to store Japanese online manuals.
> >  *
> >  * I think that replacing /usr/share/man/ja with /usr/share/man/ja_JP.EUC
> >  * could be done easily (by modification of doc/ja/man/Makefile.inc and
> >  * src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist).  But, replacing /usr/local/man/ja with
> >  * /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC may not be easy, because this replace forces
> >  * ports' maintainers to rewrite manpage destinations (all pkg/PLIST
> >  * which contains man/ja should be modified).  Mr. Asami, is this change
> >  * acceptable for ports team?
> >
> > I'm still not convinced why this is necessary in the first place.  The
> > transition from "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja" was a very painful one for the
> > ports committers and our users.  Is it really worth it?
> 
> Possibly.  The reason this has come up is that I want to use directory
> names like this in the doc/ CVS repository.  I wasn't originally thinking
> of replicating these names amongst the installed docs, but it might not
> be a bad thing.
> 
> Points in favour;
> 
>   1.  The installation directory names and the repository directory names
>       will be identical, making it easier to identify what came from where.
> 
>   2.  The directory names should be the same as the $LC_ALL for users
>       using a language other than English.
> 
>   3.  Some languages will need multiple encodings -- Chinese, for example.
>       If some languages need it, you may as well do it for all of them,
>       for the sake of consistency.
> 
> Points against;
> 
>   1.  It's more work.
> 
> >  * If man/ja is replaced with man/ja_JP.EUC, new FreeBSD's man command
> >  * can find ja_JP.EUC manuals under man/ja_JP.EUC.  But it cannot show
> >  * Japanese online manuals, because FreeBSD's groff command and more
> >  * command cannot handle Japanese text now.  This replace do not have
> >  * merit now, so I personally think that we do not have to replace man/ja
> >  * with man/ja_JP.EUC now.
> >
> > I read that we can't use ".EUC" for the chinese version anyway since
> > there are more than one EUC's over there.
> 
> The options for Chinese seem to be zh_CN.EUC and zh_TW.BIG5 (see
> /usr/share/locale/* on your system).
> 
> > Does this string (".EUC" or whatever) actually mean anything, or is it
> > there just to satisfy someone's sense of coherency?
> 
> It's the encoding type.  As shown above, some languages have different
> encoding types.
> 
> > Do we ever plan
> > to support ja_JP.jisx0208 and ja_JP.jisx0201 and others as well as
> > ja_JP.EUC?
> 
> Eventually, yes.  'n' years down the line we'll probably switch to Unicode
> (I don't know how big 'n' is in this case).  Explicitly specifying the
> encoding now saves us pain in the future.
> 
> And see above for languages that we will be using now that have different
> encodings.  Japenese is somewhat fortunate in that you can do a mechanical
> translation between the .EIC and .SJIS encodings and not lose anything.
> 
> Apparently you can't do that with Chinese, and there might be other encodings
> where that is the case as well.
> 
> > Which man page are the commands going to display if the
> > user sets LANG to "ja"?  Why can't we just make a symlink from
> > "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja"?
> 
> IMHO, when the user does "make install" it should inspect the value of the
> $LC_ALL (or $LANG, or whatever) to determine which specific directory the
> install should be in.  login.conf should be used to set the user's default,
> and the SA should be free to make a symlink in that directory to a shorter
> name as necessary to set another default.  But the files should be installed
> into a directory that completely specifies the locale name.
> 
> > I don't pretend to understand all the issues but this just looks like
> > a change for the sake of the change.  (Especially since you people
> > started from ja_JP.EUC to begin with. :)
> 
> I wasn't around when that happened :-)
> 
> N
> --
>     There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes.
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message

-- 
$B$/$j$d$^(B // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp
        // kuriyama@FreeBSD.ORG
