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 $BKY@n$G$9!#(B

 $B%m%1!<%kL>$K4X$7$F$O(B FreeBSD-tech-jp $B$G5DO@$,$"$C$?$N$G!"$=$A$i$K(B Cc: 
$B$7$F$$$^$9!#(Bja_JP.EUC $B$H$$$&L>A0$,K\Ev$O$I$&$"$k$Y$-$+$K>\$7$$J}$N%U%)(B
$B%m!<$r$*4j$$$7$^$9!#(B

$B$"$5$_$5$s!'(B
> $B$3$N7o$G$9$,!"$[$s$H$K(B Nik$B$N$$$&DL$j$K(B ja -> ja_JP.EUC$B$K$7$F$$$$$s$G$9$+!)(B
 $B8=>u!"F|K\8lE*$K$O%a%j%C%H$O$J$$$N$G!"K\Ev$O$7$?$/$J$$$G$9!#(B
($B$H$O$$$(!"(B
 o $BJ#?t%m%1!<%k$N%G%#%l%/%H%j$r(B doc $B$N2<$K;}$A$?$$(B ($BCf9q8l$O(B 2 $B$DI,MW(B)
   $B$N$G!"(Bencoding $BL>$b%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$K$D$1$?$$!#(B
 o $BE}0l@-$H$$$&4QE@$+$i!"(Bja $B$K$b(B encoding $BL>$D$1$?$$!#(B
$B$H$$$&(B nik $B$N0U?^$bJ,$+$i$J$$$G$O$J$$$G$9!#(B)

 $B$^$?!"(Bdoc/ja $B$r(B doc/ja_JP.hoge $B$K0\F0$9$k$H$7$F$b!"(B
 o $B%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$O0\F0$7$J$$$+!"(B
 o $B%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h(B /.../man/ja $B$H(B /.../man/ja_JP.hoge $B$N(B
   $B%7%s%\%j%C%/%j%s%/$r$9$k(B
$B$3$H$K$h$j!"(Bports $B$X$N1F6A$OL5$7$K$7$?$$$G$9!#(B


 $B$^$?!"L>A0$rJQ$($k$J$i$P!"$3$N<!$NJQ99$O@dBP$K$J$$$h$&$K$7$?$$$G$9!#(B
 o [FreeBSD-tech-jp $B$N(B Subject: let's not use ja_JP.EUC $B$N5DO@(B]
   ja_JP.EUC $B$,%m%1!<%kL>E*$K@5$7$/$J$/(B X11R6 (X/Open $B?d>)$J$N$G$7$g$&(B
   $B$+!)(B) $B$G$D$+$C$F$$$k(B ja_JP.eucJP $B$r;H$*$&$H$$$&5-;v$,$"$C$?$H;W$&$N(B
   $B$G$9$,!"(BX/Open $B$N;qNA$OC5$;$^$;$s$G$7$?!#(B
 o [http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/character-sets]
   $B$3$l$K$h$k$H(B ja_JP.EUC-JP $B$K$9$Y$-$H$$$&$3$H$G$7$g$&$+!)(B

	Name: Extended_UNIX_Code_Packed_Format_for_Japanese
	MIBenum: 18
	Source: Standardized by OSF, UNIX International, and UNIX Systems
	        Laboratories Pacific.  Uses ISO 2022 rules to select
	               code set 0: US-ASCII (a single 7-bit byte set)
	               code set 1: JIS X0208-1990 (a double 8-bit byte set)
	                           restricted to A0-FF in both bytes
	               code set 2: Half Width Katakana (a single 7-bit byte set)
	                           requiring SS2 as the character prefix
	               code set 3: JIS X0212-1990 (a double 7-bit byte set)
	                           restricted to A0-FF in both bytes
	                           requiring SS3 as the character prefix
	Alias: csEUCPkdFmtJapanese
	Alias: EUC-JP  (preferred MIME name)

   KDE, Qt, Xtt $B$J$I$H$b%3%s%7%9%F%s%7$JL>A0$K$J$k$Y$-$H(B nik $B$O=q$$$F(B
   $B$$$^$7$?$,!"(Bja_JP.EUC-JP $B$O(B KDE, Qt, Xtt $B$G;H$($k$N$G$7$g$&$+!)(B

 $B@5D>!"(Bja_JP.EUC $B$O$I$N$h$&$JL>A0$G$"$k$Y$-$+$o$+$C$F$J$$$G$9!#(B
 $B%m%1!<%k$K>\$7$$J}$N%U%)%m!<$r$*4j$$$7$?$$$G$9!#(B



> $B$=$b$=$b$,(B ja_JP.EUC$B$@$C$?$N$r(B ja$B$K$7$?$N$K!"$I$&$7$F$^$?85$KLa$7$?$$(B
> $B$N$+$h$/$o$+$j$^$;$s!#!J$H$$$&$+$=$b$=$b$I$&$7$F(B ja_JP.EUC$B$r(B ja$B$KJQ$((B
> $B$?$N$+$,$h$/$o$+$C$F$$$J$$(B...$B!#(B^_^;$B!K(B
 $BKY@n$NM}2r$G$O!"(B
 o ja_JP.EUC $B$@$C$?$N$,(B ja $B$K$J$C$?7P0^(B:
   ja_JP.EUC $B$NL>A0$@$H$R$H$D$N8@8l$KBP$7$F$$$/$D$b%G%#%l%/%H%j$,$G$-(B
   $B$&$k$N$G!"%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$O8@8lL>$@$1$K$7$?$$$H$$$&(B John Fieber $B$N(B
   $B0U8+!#$3$l$K(B Japanese documentation group $B$,;?F1$H$$$&7P0^!#(B
   (jfieber $B$NE:IU%a!<%k;2>H(B)
 o $B$d$O$j(B ja_JP.EUC $B$K$7$?$$$H8@$C$F$$$k7P0^(B:
   1. $B%$%s%9%H!<%k@h%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$H%j%]%8%H%jL>$OF1$8$G$"$k$Y$-(B
   2. $B%G%#%l%/%H%jL>$O%m%1!<%kL>$HF1$8$G$"$k$Y$-(B
   3. $BCf9q8l$J$I$OJ#?t%(%s%3!<%I$,I,MW(B
   (nik $B$NE:IU%a!<%k;2>H(B)

   ache $B$b>e5-$N(B 2. $B$r<gD%$7$F$$$^$7$?!#(B

> $B$=$l$K!"F|K\8l(BEUC$B$N@5$7$$%5%U%#%C%/%9$O(B .EUC $B$G$O$J$/$F(B .eucJP$B$@$H$+$$(B
> $B$&OC$b$"$j$^$;$s$G$7$?$+!)(B
>
> $B;d$OA02s$N7P83$+$i@5D>$$$C$F$3$&$$$&JQ99$OI432$"$C$F0lMx$J$7$H$$$&0U8+(B
> $B$r;}$C$F$$$^$9$N$7!"(BNik$B$N9%$_$@$1$G$P$s$P$sJQ$($i$l$k$H(B ports$BB&$H$7$F(B
> $B$OHs>o$KLBOG$J$s$G$9$,!"B>$NJ}$O$I$&;W$C$F$$$i$C$7$c$k$s$G$7$g$&!)!J$[(B
> $B$j$+$o$5$s$,0JA0%7%`%j%s%/0F$K;?@.$7$F$/$@$5$C$F$$$?$H;W$$$^$9$,!"$=$N(B
> $B8e$4H/8@$,$J$$$N$G(B Nik$B$K$OL5;k$5$l$F$$$k$h$&$G$9!#!K(B
 $B1F6A$K$D$$$F$O<!$N$h$&$J$b$N$@$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
 o doc/ja/ $B$,(B doc/ja_JP.hoge $B$K$J$k$3$H$O!"$"$^$j1F6A$O$J$$!#(B
 o /usr/local/man/ja $B$,(B /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC $B$K0\F0$5$l$k$3$H$O!"(B
   ports $B$X$N1F6ABg!#(B
   * $B$b$7(B* $B0\F0$9$k$J$i!"(B
   ln -s /usr/local/man/ja -> /usr/local/man/ja_JP.hoge
   ln -s /usr/X11R6/man/ja -> /usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.hoge
   $B$^$?$O!"(B
   ln -s /usr/local/man/ja_JP.hoge -> /usr/local/man/ja
   ln -s /usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.hoge -> /usr/X11R6/man/ja
   $B$H%j%s%/$r1JB3E*$K;D$7$F$[$7$$!#(B
   (/usr/share/man/ja $B$NJ}$O(B /doc/ja/man/Makefile.inc $B$N=q$-49$($@$1$G(B
   $BBP=h2DG=(B)


 nik $B$N(B doc $B:F9=@.<j=g(B ($B2<5-(B) $B$K$O%^%K%e%"%k$N%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$K$D$$$F$O(B
$B5-=R$7$F$$$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
 $B:#2s$N0\F0$K$D$$$F!"%^%K%e%"%k%$%s%9%H!<%k@h$O4^$^$l$J$$$3$H$r3NG'$7(B
$B$F$*$1$P(B ports $B$X$N1F6A$O$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B

4.  Fixup the Japanese hierarchy.

    4.1  Move doc/ja/ to doc/ja_JP.EUC/.  Note that an old directory with this
         name (but with the contents in the attic) already exists.  I'm not
	 sure if this poses a problem or not.

    4.2  Create a new doc/ja_JP.EUC/books/ directory.

    4.3  Move the doc/ja_JP.EUC/handbook/ directory under the new books/
         directory, so you now have doc/ja_JP.EUC/books/handbook/.

         Rename "handbook.sgml" to "book.sgml".

    4.4  Leave the FAQ where it is, as it hasn't been converted to DocBook
         yet.

    4.5  The Japanese directory hierarchy should look like

         doc
	  `-- ja_JP.EUC
	  :    |-- books
	  :    |    `-- handbook
	  :    |-- FAQ
	       `-- man



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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:41 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: Kazuo HORIKAWA <horikawa@isrd.hitachi.co.jp>
cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository  
In-Reply-To: <199801221157.UAA00594@isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kazuo HORIKAWA wrote:

> Is the proposal to import Japanese online manuals into CVS repository
> (doc/ja_JP.EUC/man) acceptable?  I would like to ask you this
> question, because you are the Documentation Project Manager.

I would like to resolve the ja versus ja_JP.EUC question first,
but otherwise that sounds fine.  

The problem coming down the pipe with the full locale
specification is cases where there may be numerous locales for
any given language.  Right now there are 4 de locales, 4 en
locales, 4 fr locales, 2 it locales, and 2 nl locales that differ
only in the country specification.  While genuine
language/dialect differences do exist in some cases, how likely
is it that de_CH is going to produce a different set of
translations that de_DE?

Encoding may still be an issue, but how big of an issue?  In the
web/mail/news environment, documents can be self-identifying. Can
a man program detect EUC versus SJIS input and convert on-the-fly
to the active locale encoding if necessary?  (Am I correct in
believing that EUC -> SJIS -> EUC is a "lossless" conversion?) 

I have also been pondering the implications moving the english
docs (and web pages) into an en subdirectory.  In the web
context, URLs without a language qualifier could be redirected to
the language of the mirror's choice. 

-john



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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:08:21 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami <asami@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: horikawa@jp.freebsd.org, ache@nagual.pp.ru,
        nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, ru-freebsd-doc@freebsd.ru,
        doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk
Subject: Re: Replace man/ja with man/ja_JP.EUC (FDP Directory Reorganization)
Message-ID: <19990526000821.A66841@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
References: <19990516183643.A15766@nagual.pp.ru> <19990517160148W.horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>
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On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 04:05:12AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote:
>  * I understand that we need not have more than one subdirectory under
>  * man/ to store Japanese online manuals.
>  * 
>  * I think that replacing /usr/share/man/ja with /usr/share/man/ja_JP.EUC
>  * could be done easily (by modification of doc/ja/man/Makefile.inc and
>  * src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist).  But, replacing /usr/local/man/ja with
>  * /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC may not be easy, because this replace forces
>  * ports' maintainers to rewrite manpage destinations (all pkg/PLIST
>  * which contains man/ja should be modified).  Mr. Asami, is this change
>  * acceptable for ports team?
> 
> I'm still not convinced why this is necessary in the first place.  The
> transition from "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja" was a very painful one for the
> ports committers and our users.  Is it really worth it?

Possibly.  The reason this has come up is that I want to use directory
names like this in the doc/ CVS repository.  I wasn't originally thinking
of replicating these names amongst the installed docs, but it might not
be a bad thing.

Points in favour;

  1.  The installation directory names and the repository directory names
      will be identical, making it easier to identify what came from where.

  2.  The directory names should be the same as the $LC_ALL for users 
      using a language other than English.

  3.  Some languages will need multiple encodings -- Chinese, for example.
      If some languages need it, you may as well do it for all of them,
      for the sake of consistency.

Points against;

  1.  It's more work.

>  * If man/ja is replaced with man/ja_JP.EUC, new FreeBSD's man command
>  * can find ja_JP.EUC manuals under man/ja_JP.EUC.  But it cannot show
>  * Japanese online manuals, because FreeBSD's groff command and more
>  * command cannot handle Japanese text now.  This replace do not have
>  * merit now, so I personally think that we do not have to replace man/ja
>  * with man/ja_JP.EUC now.
> 
> I read that we can't use ".EUC" for the chinese version anyway since
> there are more than one EUC's over there.

The options for Chinese seem to be zh_CN.EUC and zh_TW.BIG5 (see
/usr/share/locale/* on your system).

> Does this string (".EUC" or whatever) actually mean anything, or is it
> there just to satisfy someone's sense of coherency?  

It's the encoding type.  As shown above, some languages have different
encoding types.

> Do we ever plan
> to support ja_JP.jisx0208 and ja_JP.jisx0201 and others as well as
> ja_JP.EUC?  

Eventually, yes.  'n' years down the line we'll probably switch to Unicode
(I don't know how big 'n' is in this case).  Explicitly specifying the 
encoding now saves us pain in the future.

And see above for languages that we will be using now that have different
encodings.  Japenese is somewhat fortunate in that you can do a mechanical
translation between the .EIC and .SJIS encodings and not lose anything.

Apparently you can't do that with Chinese, and there might be other encodings
where that is the case as well.

> Which man page are the commands going to display if the
> user sets LANG to "ja"?  Why can't we just make a symlink from
> "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja"?

IMHO, when the user does "make install" it should inspect the value of the
$LC_ALL (or $LANG, or whatever) to determine which specific directory the
install should be in.  login.conf should be used to set the user's default,
and the SA should be free to make a symlink in that directory to a shorter
name as necessary to set another default.  But the files should be installed
into a directory that completely specifies the locale name.
 
> I don't pretend to understand all the issues but this just looks like
> a change for the sake of the change.  (Especially since you people
> started from ja_JP.EUC to begin with. :)

I wasn't around when that happened :-)

N
-- 
    There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes.


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